Re: AllNoun

[Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>]

la lojbab cusku di'e

> A Finnish Lojbanist responding to me on Lojban List regarding my version of

[...]
> VV>     Hiiren pyydystanytta kissaa ajava koira    on musta
> VV>  le smacu  kavbu         mlatu  jersi gerku cu xekri
[...]

> So it IS possible to use sentences like this without running into center-
> embedding constraints in at least one natlang.

I think we are comparing left-embedding versus right-embedding, I don't think
the Finnish sentence is using center-embedding at all.

Center-embedding in Lojban would be something like:

    mi viska le poi jersi le poi kavbu le smacu ku'o mlatu ku'o gerku
    _I see the chaser of the catcher of the mouse cat dog._

While the same thing is easily understandable with right-embedding:

    mi viska le gerku poi jersi le mlatu poi kavbu le smacu
    _I see the dog that chases the cat that catches the mouse._

Left-embedding is almost as bad as center-embedding in this case in Lojban:

    le poi le poi le smacu cu se kavbu ku'o mlatu cu se jersi ku'o gerku
    cu se viska mi
     _The (mouse-catching cat)-chasing dog is seen by me._

but this one is bad only because of the leading {le poi}s, otherwise it would
be like in Finnish. (Also, it has a lot more terminators, since Lojban follows
the English model for the least-marked case.)

The tanru would be a "reduced left-embedding":

    le smacu kavbu mlatu jersi gerku cu se viska mi
    The mouse catcher cat chaser dog is seen by me.

This has the same word order as the Finnish, but I suppose that in Finnish
there is more information in the verbs.

Of course, since I don't really know what center embedding is, I could be wrong.
I think that the usual center-embedding example is something like:

 le smacu poi le mlatu poi le gerku cu jersi cu kavbu cu citka

Jorge