Re: current cmene project

[Logical Language Group <lojbab>]

UC> I take the point about "lo", but not about "tcadrlondono": this means
UC> whatever the lexicon says it means - it may be defined as meaning
UC> 'x such that x is a city called "London"', but equally well it may
UC> be defined as 'x such that x is the city of London, England'. Fuhivla,
UC> like gismu, and unlike cmene, have fixed definitions. [I may be wrong,
UC> of course; since you disagree with me, I probably am.]

You are correct but

1) The fixed definition of the name is one agreed upon by consensus in the
community  (sorry, make that "of the fu'ivla").  I will NOT make the 
commitment to come up with unique fu'ivla for every possible town name in the 
world so as to make them all unique referents.  Thus, I would be prone to
define something like "tcadrlondono" as x1 is a city named "London" or 
something similar in pronunciation, in location (gugde/jecta) x2.  That is as
broad as possible (our norm in making new words), and also avoids the
question of standards (are you within the city proper or in the metropolitan
area, and what definition of being "in" are you using, etc.

Actually, I'll amend that - if I want to make it coinsistent with the gismu
varieties of "names".  It would be

x1 pertains to the city called "London" or something similar at location 
x2 in aspect x3

since the culture words are uniformly "pertains to" rather than "is a".  If
you want "is a" even for cultural gismu, you tend to make names, albeit
names made out of the Lojban rafsi like "lojban" and "gliban"

UC> I am not suggesting making fuhivla for names, I am suggesting making
UC> fuhivla for referring to things. I am suggesting, for example, that
UC> there be a fuhivla to fill the gap in the following pattern:
UC> 
UC>     ______ : Londinian :: brito : British
UC> 

Since I don;t want to tie up all fu'ivla space with namess-as-they-are,
giving rpeference to thoise the existing skewed set of Lojbanists think are 
important, this would be unwise as a general policy.  Of course, there are
multiple referents of "British", and only one of them is assigned to "brito"

(an ancient computer game - the "Ultima" series, has a major character 
named "Lord British").  In addition, it is arguable that the Roman Londinium
was a somewhat different thing than the current city of London, botyh in
boundaries, and probably in usefulness in talking about things "related to"
the city.)

In addition, we still haven;t addressed the problem of non-consensus  of
pronunciation as it affects Lojbanization.  The names that will appear
in the dictionary will be VERY CLEARLY indicated as examples and proposals.
They will have some prescriptive nature merely because they are mentioned
in the dictionary, but I have no intention of letting a rather hurried
ad hoc effort determine the shape of a large chunk of the language word space
forever.  

lojbab