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Beginner's Ramblings



hey.

I've been reading this list for a while, and struggling to understand
Lojban off and on.  First off, I have a question that's been bugging me
since I read it in the lesson weeks ago.

In lesson #5, page 5-46, there is a sentence:
	. . . .i ba vo kruca ko carna klama le zunle

[How do you do ellipses in Lojban, anyway?  I haven't got my materials
here...]
The translation given is, "After four intersections, turningly-go to the
left." (the sentence is part of directions to a place.)  Now, shouldn't
'ko' be simply absorbed into the place-structure of 'kruca'?  I looked up
the places of 'kruca' once, but I don't remember past the second place (or
even if there are any more places), but as I understand it, the first part
of this phrase should translate to, "[Be such that] (something) later
intersects you ..."  Actually, that doesn't handle the 'vo', and I don't
recall exactly how numbers and sumti and bridi interreact.  Go easy on me,
I'm a newbie and I don't have my reference stuff.  Maybe "Be such that four
somethings later intersect you..."  After all, you have 'kruce' with its
first place unspecified (unless 'vo' handles that), why shouldn't its
second place be 'ko'?  It's as good a sumti as any!  Then what would the
rest mean?

I suppose that terminators would handle this right.  Let's just use 'le
kruce' instead of 'vo'; I'm uncertain with numbers.  I would guess that 
	.i ba le kruce ku ko carna klama le zunle
or something would work.

So long as I'm going out on a limb, I might as well put in my little
attempt at simple translation.  I tried to translate the beginning of the
Doors' song _People Are Strange_.

In English:
	People are strange / When you're a stranger;
	Faces look ugly / When you're alone.
	Women seem wicked / When you're unwanted;
	Streets are uneven / When you're down.

My mangled Lojban:
	loi prenu cu cizra
	.inaja do ca fange
	.i loi flira cu simlu to'e melbu
	.inaja do ca na se kansa
	.i loi ninmu cu mabla simlu
	.inaja do ca na se djica
	.i loi klaji cu to'e xutla
	.inaja do ca badri fa'o

Numerous comments:
I use 'loi' all the time.  Should it be "lo'i"?  Or something else?

I don't much care for ".inaja."  I want a way to say "if but not
necessarily only if."  I assume there's a better way.  I copied this usage
from lojbab's translation of _Language_. 

Does the use of "ca" make sense?  I mean to get across the sense that faces
look ugly if you're down at the time (hence the English 'when').

Should "mabli" in line 5 be "palci"?  Am I using to'e right?  Is there a
better way to express these things?

Should I be using the tanru I use?  What would be better?

I realize that some lexeme UI words would probably belong here, but I'm not
positive which to use or even if I'd want them there.  There's something
unsettling about the unemotionality you get without them which fits the
mood of the song.  Or not.

How would I continue?  In order to keep the sentence order more or less
parallel to the english, I need a forethought "if" sentence-joiner.  I'm
kinda fuzzy on conjunctions in general and conditionals in specific, so I'm
afraid to try.

I had to lose some of the punch of the English by picking apart the
meanings of "strange" (into cizra and fange).  Such is the curse of
translation.

What do you all think?

co'omi'e mark. clsn.  (hmm.  I'm not sure about that spelling for my last
name.  maybe culsyn. or clsyn. or culsn.  The trouble is that clsn. is
probably best given the usual conventions for pronunciation of vocalic
consonants, but it leaves you in the dark as to syllabication.  Perhaps
c,ls,n. would be better.  But not really.)